This audience is keeping it real. I find this fascinating. I don’t necessarily agree with everything they are saying, I simply appreciate the honesty. You never see anything this legit in the media anymore.

The woman at 23:27 was a TERF before the term existed. And Cossey has some prehistoric ideas about what makes a woman as well. "No hairy chests"???? BITCH PLEASE.

Cossey is very similar to Phoebe Waller Bridge in her looks and mannerisms. Maybe they can femme PWB up for a biopic?

I adored Donahue as a (gen-x, latch-key) kid…

I don’t know what the purpose of this post is, exactly, but my son is trans. He had top surgery, is a gen-z dandy and is not traditionally “masculine” in the least, but he’s just living his life and is not hurting anyone.He has a boyfriend who identifies as non-binary, which may trigger some American eldergays, i guess.

I just suspect this post was made to bring out the right-wing, divisive crazies. Was it?

R2 stop being so paranoid. No. I just posted it because it is a fascinating piece of media from the 80s. The honesty of these people is not something you see anymore. Nobody wants to say what they are really thinking. It is just interesting to watch. I don’t really agree with much of the dialog, it is just a good watch from a time when people were not as careful with their words.

Different time, different sensibility, different way to appeal to people's better judgement.

Things have always changed over time.

Let's get all nostalgic. Yay!

"Through puberty, Cossey was distinctly feminine in appearance due to XXXY syndrome"

Is this what people refer to when they say "intersex"?

She's awfully courageous to face that 1980s flyover audience. There was (and is) lot of ignorance, but I guess you have to start somewhere.

r2, your "son" is a woman. Humans are sexually dimorphic and can't change sex.

In the comments people are bashing Phil. I honestly think he was pretty respectful considering it was over thirty years ago and many were not so sensitive.

Thank you, R3 - I wasn’t being paranoid (ok, maybe I was a bit?), more just fatigued from always seeing trans attacks on DL that I’m not sure are Russian psy-ops or legitimate sentiment. I meant no slight on you!

Those talk shows were SOMETHING. I know Donahue was old-school and was always pretended he was doing everything for the greater good, for “information purposes”, as one DID, but that moment had passed by the mid-‘80s, and he had to bow out when the jenny jones, montel, maury, sally jesse, ricki lake, et al format became popular.

She's really gorgeous and looks very feminine from the start. I guess she's actually intersex and her parents opted to raise her male? I didn't watch the entire video but plan to. Strange they chose male because I've always heard most choose female as it's easier to go that route physically. I'm not sure I would call her trans.

Having said all that, I agree that you don't see this type of media much today. Media likes to shock and enrage rather than explain or show. I'd say this interview seems tastefully done and was a good introduction to a topic that is misunderstood. Intersex isn't really trans in the way we consider trans today, and her behavior supports this. She seems very at peace and genuine.

Thank you so much, R7. I never knew sex and gender were different. You have enlightened us all.

He's a man, and now he is an old man.

Makeup really fucks with people's brains, I suppose.

It is impossible to change sex. Women don't have "pink brains" that can be magically transported into a man's body. The whole concept is incredibly offensive, sexist, and regressive, no matter the era.

R12 but what about the chromosomes issue here? I'm reading up on it and it's not actually intersex as I mistakenly noted above but it's also not fully male? This is not straight trans to me so I disagree with you on that.

Maybe it's not so much that OP were more honest Black then, but that feelings have thawed, OP/R3? You sound like a Trumpanzee with this insistence that honesty means hate. And does that apply to gay men, too?

The Joan Rivers interview is much better. More intelligent and light-hearted while at the same time providing more info. Joanie was the best! Miss her.

R14 XXXY males typically have underdeveloped penis/testes, suffer incomplete puberty, and have extra breast tissue. Most are infertile. They also have the same traits that XXX females have (learning disabilities, taller than average, difficulty with regulating emotions, etc.) However, the presence of a Y chromosome = male regardless of any disorder of sexual development because testosterone, even in small amounts, can cause irreversible masculinization. I honestly believe, for the sake of biological reality, that the term “intersex” should be retired. Hermaphrodites do not exist.

R17 this is a genuine question. Are their no mutations that render somebody both male and female?

No, R18. Not if we classify “male” as the presence of a Y chromosome and “female” as the lack of one. It’s pretty straightforward.

If we're going to classify people the way radfems do -- by taking only their chromosomes into account -- then everyone who possesses both XX and Y chromosomes is male and female. If you use any other criterium, such as circulating hormones, you give room to trans people to claim they're not the sex they've been assigned to.

R20, see R19: the "radfem" party line is now that males are those with a Y chromosome and SRY gene.

R2 No one cares about your boring daughter.

Male = presence of the Y chromosome. Female = no Y chromosome. XY = male. XXY = male. XXXY = male. XXYY = male. Geneticists, not ideologues, have defined maleness as a product of the Y chromosome.

Donahue predates Oprah. He's the true OG of the daytime talkshow.

[quote]Maybe it's not so much that OP were more honest Black then, but that feelings have thawed, OP/[R3]? You sound like a Trumpanzee with this insistence that honesty means hate. And does that apply to gay men, too?

“Black then”? And you are calling me a Trumpanzee? No, dear. This isn’t about condoning hate. It is about how the audience and Tula are just completely unedited. Many people today still share these antiquated view points, yet they would not say this stuff out loud quite so freely. Some of the stuff Tula says is just as ignorant as the audience. You sound simple. If something triggers you in any way it must be Trumpian.

I don't know if I believe the intersex shit, if that is true, then why didn't her parents know what she was going off for to see doctors? It's just something they all say so they can be the one true trans person.

R26 I think it’s plausible that she’s either androgen resistant or has three X’s in addition to her Y, because her bone structure is naturally feminine, and she’s also statuesque which is another trait of both males and females with a third X chromosome.

It’s not rocket science to believe that a person with a disorder of sexual development is more likely to identify as the opposite sex, so they usually get a free pass for it while those with typical XX or XY chromosomes are under much more scrutiny for having a cross-sex identity.

Caroline and her younger husband many years ago. They're still together.

He's quite a dish and seems very nice!

I remember seeing that episode of Donahue when it aired. I thought Tula was gorgeous

Donahue dressed like a real Midwesterner when he came on the scene, but Marlo Thomas wasn’t having any of that mess.

Her clothing gifts to him each Christmas were documented in That Girl and Me, which is a fabulous book.

I remember seeing that Donahue show in the 80s I was a kid and didn’t appreciate it

I loved it when I was a kid. I was a weird kid

Re the audience, wasn't it interesting that the most anti-trans or should I say anti-Tula assholes in the audience had Southern accents.

Most of those NYC daytime talk shows were always filled with backwards flyover tourists. New Yorkers were/are at work when those shows were filmed. Fucking annoying hillbillies!

That female 'feminist', the young woman with with the pig nose, was so immature, judgmental and just plain ignorant.

Tula has always better looking than most bio women, plus, she had great hair. Guess the estrogen actually helped her hair or did she have thick hair before the sex change and the hormones? Not sure, but she was gorgeous.

R10 They chose male because she had a dick, that was probably the great decider. She said later they were able to tuck it in and re-arrange it, of course it's easier to make a hole than a pole so they decided on male.

In Tula's case, she clearly had an appendage of some kind, which explains why she was thought to be a normal male. It certainly makes more sense than the cock-and-balls - sorry, cock-and-bull story told by "Lady" Colin Campbell about her birth.

I like her. Right classy broad.

Any before pictures?

What’s the deal with the husband?

Closeted?

I didnt actually watch the video.

[quote]And Cossey has some prehistoric ideas about what makes a woman as well. "No hairy chests"???? BITCH PLEASE.

Then this man was an idiot who has never heard of PCOS/hormonal issues. What makes you female is having a REAL vagina. It doesn't have to produce a baby or even menstruate, it just needs to exist. None of these trans"women" were born with one and some of them have the nerve to be such nasty, cruel assholes, but expect respect from everyone else.

I recall seeing one going after some bald guy about him losing his hair and bragging about how taking hormones early on is why he himself held onto his hair. Congrats on growing hair -- it'll never make up for the fact you will never have an actual vagina, buddy. Hetero guys would sooner fuck a bald chick with an actual vagina than you and your hair and the plastic attachment you got down there.

That ugly bitch at 2327 has some nerve demanding an intelligent persona when she's as stupid and ugly as she is and aside that the woman on stage demonstrated nothing but intelligence as well as beauty and class and made it seem effortless.

Joan over at R13 is really good. She was truly gay friendly as we all know. She used to have the Hollywood Kids on her show and would just chat with them about Hollywood gossip and their blind items as though she was their grandmother. I miss Joan Rivers sometimes.

Tula is beautiful! All that hair and those long legs. Lovely manner of speaking and movement. She's elegant but not overly so, she's refined.

If one considers the era Phil Donahue tried I guess. He wasn't rude at all. Candy Darling would have tripped him out I bet.

I bet the husband just did anal all the time.

There's a before pic in the video R39, skinny teen boy with a flat chest and a Bowie-esque shag hair do (Ziggy era) I don't buy the syndrome she says she has. She said as a kid her uncle thought she was a bit femme and I think she said he was then happy to help pay for surgery. I think she was just a femme dude that didn't want to be one.

R2 so the crazies are the ones who don’t co-sign your approval of your child’s dysphoric delusion? Mmkay.

R2, as long as your kid isn't pushing the trans religion on people who aren't interested and are non-believers then there isn't any problem.

Tula's line about "no hairy chests" was comparing transvestites (who dress as women part of the time but probably would keep their chest hair in case shaving it would confuse their wives) to transsexuals, who are full-time female impersonators.

Uncle Bottom paid for the surgery?

Hmmmmmmm…

When people obfuscate radical double mastectomies by calling them coy things like "top surgery", they don't get why people don't all agree.

Donahue was such a good show! I have no idea who this person is I just wanted to say that. Thank you.

R47, if that's the case, fine. But I've seen some really, really nasty transwomen who get away with saying some vile shit and yet they expect to be treated like a "lady"? No, if you're a shithead, you should be called out for being one. You don't get to talk shit about real men or real women and not expect someone to call you out. And don't think most of us aren't prepared to give you a dose of reality as to what you look like to most of the world.

[quote]but that moment had passed by the mid-‘80s, and he had to bow out when the jenny jones, montel, maury, sally jesse, ricki lake, et al format became popular.

And Oprah started out like them then surpassed them by going the complete opposite direction.

The others were known as trashy while Oprah became the thinking housewife's daytime talk show.

There was room for Rosie until there wasn't.

Then Ellen came along with the same schtick and was more relatable but also funny until she became less relatable and bitter funny.

Then Kelly Clarkson snatched her wig. She's relatable, funny without trying and entertaining.

Tula appeared in a Power Station video, forgot which one. “Some Like It Hot”?

R46: [quote]as long as your kid isn't pushing the trans religion on people who aren't interested and are non-believers then there isn't any problem.

My son is just a young person living his life, but always having to defend or justify himself. It’s not something one would choose unless there were a real need to do so.

I do think the internet (especially tumblr) had a hand in the current trans “explosion” but, at the same time, perhaps it just gave young people permission and information about living their “truth” (sorry!)

Gender is a social construct; sex is biological. I don’t see why people can’t shift or play with gender, but then I’m a gen-xer who came of age as a punk, saying “fuck you” to societal norms.

R20 Criterion, not criterium. The first is the singular of 'criteria', the second is a type of bike race.

Can't stand the 'oh dear' troll(s). Please, STFU!

Now back to actually talking about Tula, here's how she looked a few years ago.

Cool video, op! Thanks for sharing.

My Mom was a daytime soap and talk fan back in the day so you drudged up some fun memories of playing sick and watching tv.

It took real pride and/or desperation in those days to lay yourself openTV. that level of criticism.

People are still very much The Mob, but we try to hide it.

Of course this explodes into a trans thing.

I AM SO BEYOND EXHAUSTED listening to people defend their gender non conforming sons "transitioning to women" because they, as parents, didn't have the balls it takes to raise a gay man.

Bitches it ain't easy.

If it were, we'd ALL have a guest spot on QAF.

And we'd all be getting money, bitch.

My vagina for an edit button!

Because the GNC gay men are a hell of a lot less problematic than the straight ones who are so overly competitive due that they have to stuck their dicks in a women's collegiate swim uniform.

Raise a frickin man for Jeebus' sake. Who cares who he wants to screw as long as it's legal, he's happy trying, and he doesn't need to win Momma's love by cruising the women's locker room.

And that's a lot of typos. I will admit, I Oh Dear'd the crap out of this thing, but the idea still stands.

I don't see a lot of people and I'm not FIT for company.

Tula dated and married men.

So just what exactly does she have? A hole or a pole or whatever? Was it the full chop? I need to know.

r5 yes & no.

by modern intersex standards, which has become dominated by the female end of the spectrum... they don't count most karyotype variations unless they include a physical anomaly.

r27 that's not true, actually.

There's long been conflicts between the intersex and trans community as a whole

and most tend to id with assigned genders...

there's no real increase of dsd/intersex individuals being trans or even gay

much of that is based on archaic studies, which get hijcked by trans and anti-lgbt alike. . .

as well as witch hunts to find the root of all evil

as said conditions have been targeted multiple times in history

the last time in the western world in 2000 when several euro govts discussed putting them on a pre-offenders registry based on such archaic and long debunked information. However, this line of thinking continues in the developing the world . . . while in the west and continues to be referenced in modern literature because the vast amount of research is social rather than medical... the novelty of it remains and it has moved from being a discrete condition back to becoming a sociopolitical identity i- which is often used as justification for being trans, while originating organizations continue to fight towards bodily autonomy rights.

Or in some parts of the U.S., it's been tied to munchausen by proxy with another long standing enemy of the community, mostly withi the northeast... where it's treated like a more serious disability.

until the advent of intersex activism organizations, every group was parent group. . . which mostly kept individuals with the conditions out . adult support groups would pop up after said activist organizations came into mform, though most of them did not want to be associated and viewed them as mostly made up of faggots, dykes and trannies. . . which essentially they were because the more henious side of conversion therapy was viewed as justified for dsd/intersex individuals that were lgbt.

^ the other longstanding enemy of said groups were, in fact, parents and the medical establishment.

and how lgbt intersex/dsd were treated serves as the basis of what would be the likely outcome if they found a definitive area related to homosexuality.

the number one reason dsd/intersex are aborted when diagnosed prenatally isn't for the fear of developmental disabilities but of homosexuality or transgender.

Why do I suddenly have the urge to skullfuck Sally Jesse Raphael?

With with those trademark designer red glasses, of course

r56, you don't understand human biology. The presence of the SRY gene determines maleness; its absence determines femaleness. Every single person with a Differential Sex Disorder is either male or female, as all DSDs (aka "intersex" disorders) are sex specific. There is no such thing as a human hermaphrodite, nor has there ever been. Human cannot change sex.

There is not, nor has there ever been, a human being that produces both egg and sperm. There are no hermaphrodites. "Intersex" people, who have differences in sex development, might have unusual conditions in sex development but they are all either male or female.

It isn't an "identity" it is a medical condition.

R60 maybe at one time the GNC gay men were a hell of a lot less problematic as you say. But I'm not sure that holds true anymore.

Too many of them are standing shoulder-to-shoulder with straight AGPs in fighting for things that negatively impact gays, women and kids.

Does she have a dick, nerds?

Watch the video, dork R71! She says no, she says its been inverted and tucked inside.

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